Fockla's Appeal for DNS removal

[FocKla]

I am sure everyone is interested to see how this turns out, so here it goes.

I have recently been giving DNS gear and I feel like I do not deserve it.

I am incredibly to new to the staking business, and this experience as turned out to be one of the most stressful things that has ever occured in my lifetime. Just a week or so ago, GridIronJesse provided me with a generous stake of 1000$ USD. Up until that stake, I had made many MTT cashes as well as cash game wins upwards of 55,000$. My goal on PTP was to earn myself a solid reputation, not only to make money, but to help others make money.

A few weeks ago, long time PTP use GermanStud provided me with a 300$ stake, in which i turned into 1560$ in the span of week. During that time, I played a 100$ rebuy and 109$ turbo on my own dime, winning over 9500$. I did not notify German that I was playing these on my own dime, and he simply congratulated me. We both just assumed that we knew that it was not for the stake simply because it was way out of BR guidlines

That being said, When GridIron provided me with a generous 1000$ stake, I accepted it as an opportunity to get a large some of points, and to gain positive relationships with a very well respected PTP user. At that time, I provided him with a screen shot showing that I did in fact have just over 4,000$ after cashing out the majority of my winnings.

As per the terms of the stake, I was to play MTT's at around a 5% buy in rule, nothing exceeding 26$. On day 1, I lost a little over 50$ for the stake. That night, I PMed GridIron requesting that I play the 109$ turbo at 1am because I had won that tournament a few weeks ago. That being said, GridIron gave me the go ahead, but 109$ is drastically outside the BR guidelines, and with over an hour to personally decide whether or not that would be a good decision, I thought better of it and simply went to bed. With over 3 days away from the tables, at 4 pm I made the decision to play the ever dramatic Sunday Million...

After my stake with German, I just assumed that I could play the SM on my own dime, because it would represent almost 25% of the BR and is the most unlikely of tournaments to go deep in, especially after placing 6th the week before in the warm up. About 4 hours into the SM, Grid PMed me stating is congratulations on making the money in the Tournament, About an hour or so later, I logged back on to PTP knowing that I should definitly tell Grid that this was not part of the stake to clear the air. Grid then replied saying that he assumed it was for the stake because the terms were for me to satellite into the tournament. However, I did not in fact satellite into it (you can check my OPR). I normally play around 6-8 tables, and I was determined to do better than 147th in the tourney last week, so I only played the one table, trying to avoid as many distractions as possible.

To help avoid this eventual dillemma, I offered Grid 4,000$ if I was to in fact make the final table. I have NOT sent Grid the 4000$ however I have sent him his 1000$ stakeback, and I intend to ship once all this drama is through.

My most obvious mistake here was including the tourney in the rail. However, the very next day my rail was closed and I could not update it. My plan was to just include a 4K BONUS beside the tourney in the rail. When the tournament was over, I was in utter shock and disbelief of how much money I just made, and could not help but tell my family and celebrate. GridIron's plea is respectable, however he did not in fact pm stating that I could play this tournament for the stake. When he did pm me, I was already in the money, and he clearly had no problem with me playing the tournament although it greatly exceeded BR guidelines. Obviously if I am trying to earn peoples respect and trust, I am not going to go risking 25% of the BR on the most far fetched MTT online, especially on only the second day of running the stake.

I also firmly believe that if I played this MTT and did not tell him, and did not cash, he would have assumed that I was playing this with my own money, thus giving me the benefit of the doubt that I was in fact playing this with my own money. The fact that it is a large some of money, and I am being bombarded by the mob mentality of PTP users, makes this a very stressful and painful situation for both GridIron and myself. I would like to keep my word of giving GridIron the 1K + 3K bonus that I did in fact promise, and I am very sorry for all the inconvenience and drama that has insued with this.

I did make a few amateur mistakes, but I do not feel that this should result in me turning over half of my family's salary simply because of a few allagations. Once again, I apologize for the inconvenience, and I would like to request that my DNS is removed so I can go on with participating in the wonderful world of PTP. Also, I would like to keep my word and go through with a PTP appreciation tournament if someone would like to help organize it.

Thanks,

Ariel

[DMoney78]

That's a tremendously well thought out post.

And yes, there would be zero problems if you had never posted SM stuff in the rail.

Anyway, Joeker is going to rule on this. And no one other than mods, admins and Jesse should be posting in this thread -- unless you have a really legitimate point. If you're not sure, keep it to yourself, or keep it in Shooting Off.

[GridIronJesse]

I am hesitant to post much as I dont want to make this a pissing contest. You can see from her 8:58 response that we were in this together. At the same time, it was clearly listed in the rail. Obviously, we had no idea it would end up 7 hours later with so much money involved:

November 30th, 2008, 08:58 PM FocKla
GEAR: DO NOT STAKE*


Player points: 705.32
Staker points: 104.30



Join Date: Aug 14, 2008
Location: Mount Albert, Ontario
Posts: 96
Infractions: 0/1 (3000)


Re: Looking good in Sunday Million!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GridIronJesse
LEts take it down!

lol I sure hope so!.. I came 147th last weekend looking to improve.. I also need to update our rail I have been slacking

It wasnt until nearly 11:00pm when I got the note from Fockla telling me that this wasnt for our stake.

[FocKla]

Originally Posted by GridIronJesse

I am hesitant to post much as I dont want to make this a pissing contest. You can see from her 8:58 response that we were in this together. At the same time, it was clearly listed in the rail. Obviously, we had no idea it would end up 7 hours later with so much money involved:

November 30th, 2008, 08:58 PM FocKla
GEAR: DO NOT STAKE*


Player points: 705.32
Staker points: 104.30



Join Date: Aug 14, 2008
Location: Mount Albert, Ontario
Posts: 96
Infractions: 0/1 (3000)


Re: Looking good in Sunday Million!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GridIronJesse
LEts take it down!

lol I sure hope so!.. I came 147th last weekend looking to improve.. I also need to update our rail I have been slacking

It wasnt until nearly 11:00pm when I got the note from Fockla telling me that this wasnt for our stake.

I will do my best to be civil, but we all know that the Sunday Million is a 12 hour long MTT. Simply because the title states "Lets take it down", one can not just assume that we have agreed upon this prior the the start of this tournament. We did not agree to play this together, and you did pm while I was already in the money if I am correct. Would you not have been quite upset if I had played this and not cashed, and had included it in the rail without having your permission prior to this MTTs start. If you do recall, when I wanted to play a larger buy-in MTT, I did in fact ASK you over an hour prior to the start. Also, I only included it in the rail because we I had the intention of giving you a SM bonus of 4k if I was to FT. The very next day (I believe), you closed the rail giving me no opportunity to edit the rail. Also, you allowed this to be included in the HOF thread without asking prior, even after you knew that this MTT was NOT for the stake. Sorry if I am being over the top rude, but I am very stressed right now.

[GridIronJesse]

As noted, I wont let this degrade into a pissing contest. We've suprisingly remained civil throughout - lets not change that yet. I emailed you before the money.

[FocKla]

lets not change that..yet lol. The bubble was 3 hours and 47 minutes if I am not mistaking, which would put the time 8:17? What time did you pm me at. Anyways, it was pretty evident at the time that when you initially PMed me, I was a shoe in to cash with a comfortable stack. Were you logged on PTP between the start of 4:30 and the bubble time? Could you not see that I had registered for the Sunday Million, and if so how come you did not ask then? I apologize for being so forward, but I have been in a terrible mood since Monday. I am not 100% sure with those facts, so If you could, will you answer those questions please?

[Vedder1980]

So it was put in the rail listed with finish place/feild size as well just in CASE you got deep and could ship a bonus. Im sorry but i just am not buying that - luckily its not me that needs to be cinvinced.

Im wouldnt consider myself part of a mob mentality but put simply this looks likes the worlds largest angle shoot. I truly hope you and jesse can come to an agreement as you seem a sensible/logical person. The moment a horse lists a tourney in a rail as a staker i would consider that tourney to be having played for my stake - rightly or wrongly within the BR rules. If that was a mistake then i think you need to realise how painfull a mistake that is for jesse to have to bear. This may be half your families yearly salary but if i was backing you and in jesses shoes that money would mean a huge amount to me.

This is an awesome site and i will have 0 bearing on the outcome of your appeal but i will say that even if you are succsessfull most of this site is going to be loathe to give you large amounts of money for playing things like the WSOP, something you could have easily done without this mess, for fear that you win 1 mill and pull the same stunt. You seem a resonable person so sit down and think about this from the other perspective.

Honestly good luck to you - i really think you and jesse should get on a phone line and try to come to a conclusion together. Jesse is also a sensible person and maybe you can get a deal together. GL to you both - i just wasnted you to see the veiw of an outsider who has staked and played a lot on this site.

Stu.

[ChicagoAPA]

Msusyr just replied to my PM............



Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoAPA
Did you get the stake money back yet? I ask cause fockla just put up a BAP

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoAPA
I suggest you end the stake with fockla and get your money back



No I did not. He claims he lost it in cash games which was not a part of our stake. I just basically told him this is unacceptable and I will be requesting gear if this isn't sorted out.

I appreciate the heads up and pm.

[msusyr24]

Well, I have since worked things out with FocKla, and he has indeed ended our stake and shipped back appropriate monies.

[FocKla]

In regards to Msusyr24's stake, I had asked him in a PM if I could play .5/1 at a 40% buy in rule for hu cash games. He said that he normally would not allow it, but in this case i could. With little time for MTT's that take hours, over 3 days I eventually lost a little under 400$ in cash games. I have since repayed him his money back and ended the stake.

Also, I appreciate your opinion Vedder. After the Sunday Mill, I went to celebrate with family and friends and was really not paying enough attention to PTP. When I went to edit my rail on my next visit, it was closed and I was not able to put on what I truly intended on submitting. I can understand how painfull this is for Grid, but I really hope that people can understand where I am coming from.

[dapfunkera]

Originally Posted by msusyr24

Well, I have since worked things out with FocKla, and he has indeed ended our stake and shipped back appropriate monies.

I think if you explained what the issue was it might help in this case

[GridIronJesse]

Ariel/Fockla, I have pm'd you my phone number if youd like to talk tomorrow (I have 2 small children). Feel free to call.

[BrandonPL]

Originally Posted by FocKla

Also, I appreciate your opinion Vedder. After the Sunday Mill, I went to celebrate with family and friends and was really not paying enough attention to PTP. When I went to edit my rail on my next visit, it was closed and I was not able to put on what I truly intended on submitting. I can understand how painfull this is for Grid, but I really hope that people can understand where I am coming from.

This right here is the problem. If you were playing the SM on just your own dime, it never should have been in the rail in the first place. If you were going to play it and add a bonus the stake, that should have been clearly identified in the rail or should have been spoken about previously.

If you had simple put this in the rail then there would be no problem:
Sunday Million $215 (x/xxxx) - $3K bonus to this stake if I make the final table.

The ambiguity of your post is where the problem comes in. You shouldn't have to go back and edit the rail afterwords with your true intentions. They should be spilled out completely before you play. If you had never put it in the rail in the first place, there would obviously be no problem either. The second you put it in the rail though, as a backer, I would expect that you are playing it for me even if it falls out of the BR rules (which I would deal with separately after I noticed it).

In my opinion, you both have good points but from being a member of the site for a while now and both playing staked and doing a decent amount of staking, I would have to say that as soon as you put it in the rail w/o any other stipulations, it's being played for Jesse.

You really don't want to keep DNS. You will easily get back for the WSOP, Sunday Majors, FTOPS, WCOOP, .... for making this situation right. And you can probably make it right for a lot less than $50K. I would guess that if you were willing to pay out $x of the winnings it would rectufy the situation, we could chalk it up to a beginers mistake, and you could get the DNS off and get big backing in the future which would be worth a lot more in the long run than the money you are paying out right now is.

[Vedder1980]

I think people may be able to understand where your coming from but i think its important that you/jesse talk and come to a conclusion your are both happy with - the fact is as standard if you put it in the rail its for a stake, if it was a mistake then talk to jesse see if you can agree on a deal. Ignore the standard mob in SO, generally people here are reasonable.

The fact is you entered a business deal. Consider your rail as an account. The moment you entered that tounrey this situation was created. I reall ythink you and jesse could come to a reasonable conclusion on this. I think a phone convo would work a lot better than pms.

Stu.

[joeker]

I will rule on this tomorrow

[FocKla]

Okay thanks for the HU Joeker, I can try and sleep tonight.

[GridIronJesse]

Ariel, lets talk tomorrow. Prior to 9pm we were communicating as we were playing the tournament for the stake. Prior to 9pm the tiournament is added to the rail. It isnt until 11pm you saythat the tourney was on your dime and offered a bonus, to which I disagreed.

[Lil_Lisa_W]

Can someone please Copy past the Rail from mus stake, as he says in there he will play stars for mus and TIlt for Grid. or at least implies that?


ty

[joeker]

Originally Posted by FocKla

Okay thanks for the HU Joeker, I can try and sleep tonight.

Don't worry, you will get a fair review, if there's one thing everyone knows on this site it's that I don't listen to masses, I make my decisions based on what I see, and take into account the arguments of a few respected members

I can say this is not a clear cut case going either way, so if you and Jesse are able to amicably work this out that would make the conclusion of this much easier to acheive

[Lil_Lisa_W]

FocKla
GEAR: DO NOT STAKE*


Player points: 705.32
Staker points: 104.30



Join Date: Aug 14, 2008
Location: Mount Albert, Ontario
Posts: 100
Infractions: 0/1 (3000)




Gridiron sent his funds on FT, but I am playing it on stars. I can manage both for the time being, and I am only running his stake for 2 weeks. If this is a problem feel free to let me know.. but for the time being lets make thousands




It is dating nove 28th?