TIPS FOR STAKING

Mark Ortega · January 26th, 2007, 12:27 PM

1) DON'T STAKE 24SHACK24
2) DON'T STAKE 9-MAN SNGS UNLESS YOU DO A SERIES OF THEM AT HIGH BUYINS. THIS IS THE ONLY WAY YOU WILL TURN A PROFIT, TRUST ME.
3) WHEN LOOKING TO STAKE SOMEONE IN AN MTT, CHECK OFFICIALPOKERRANKING.COM NOT THEPOKERDB, BECAUSE THEPOKERDB DOESN'T TAKE FOR ACCOUNT LOST TOURNAMENTS UNLESS YOU SUBSCRIBE
4) WHEN LOOKING TO STAKE SOMEONE IN A SNG, CHECK SHARKSCOPE.
5) DON'T STAKE 24SHACK24
6) REBUY TOURNAMENTS ARE VERY PROFITABLE IF THE HORSE DOESN'T USE A LOT OF MONEY. BARELY CASHING = A GOOD RETURN AND IT GETS A LOT BIGGER THE DEEPER YOU GET. IT ISN'T TOUGH TO CASH THESE TO BEGIN WITH.
7) STAKE MARK ORTEGA INTO THE NIGHTLY 100 GRAND AND YOU WILL SEE A PROFIT. ASK THOSE WHO BOUGHT SHARES OF HIM IN HIS BUY A PIECE WHEN HE GOT 10TH
8) DON'T STAKE NOOBS ANYTHING ABOVE $5
9) MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANYTHING IS A HORSE'S HONESTY AND INTEGRITY.

philivey123422 · January 26th, 2007, 09:27 PM

2) Any buyin works...if you do a series and pick someone good, anyone can profit....don't absolutely HAVE TO DO BIG BUYINS

3) That site doesn't give anywhere near the full results, doesn't track a bunch of buyins

Cardbox · January 26th, 2007, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philivey123422

2) Any buyin works...if you do a series and pick someone good, anyone can profit....don't absolutely HAVE TO DO BIG BUYINS

3) That site doesn't give anywhere near the full results, doesn't track a bunch of buyins

2) 1.75 series always make a good return with how soft they are, no-risk small-reward is always good when starting your staking.

3) Both sites are good, but look around NB for some of the more respected, trustworthy players and you'll do well

good points guys

PartTimePoker · January 27th, 2007, 04:04 AM

keep adding and i'll eventually compile a sticky for new stakers. great stuff

dadetroitkid · February 3rd, 2007, 10:20 AM

1. Staking tournaments of any kind is -EV without a large stakers cut. May as well play the lottery, or play yourself. 50% cut is crap for the amount of cash you will be risking. Sure, putting someone into a tourney every now and then can be great fun - but its DEFINITELY not the best way to make money unless you get some insane luck.

2. Remember, if you are staking people on NeverBeg, odds are you don't know, and will never know - anyone you will stake. Hence, you want horses with LARGE reputations. People that have had their accounts for months, never had any gear, never had any problems.

Ask other posters, etc - if they feel it's someone you can trust. Remember, you have no recourse if you get rolled other than not allowing that one person to steal here again.

3. NEVER stake someone with gear. Giving someone "a fair shake", or "a fresh start" - rarely works. They usually had their gear for good reason. Even HOP gear means they were too stupid to read something important (the rules, for example).

4. Know what you are trying to accomplish by making your stake. Set out solid goals for both yourself and your horse, and make sure they are attainable. If you're trying to make $200 out of a $10 stake, you might rethink what you are trying to accomplish and how you are trying to get there.

5. Remember that this game is hard, and it is still GAMBLING. Don't stake someone money you can't afford to have lost on a bad night.

6. If someone "guarantees they'll win" - avoid them at all cost. Any poker player who is trying to be an "up-and-comer" or an aspiring "pro" oughta know better than anyone that this statement is a complete falsehood. Sure you can play great and get the odds well in your favor in most cases - but you can still always lose. Even 1 outers hit sometimes.

7. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. If they are flat broke, there's probably a reason. Which leads to rule #8.

8. If they don't have money of their own, why would you ever stake them? You want players that are TALENTED AND PLAYING. They aren't sitting on the sidelines "looking for the right deal". A real player has his own money and is already winning. This leads to rule #9.

9. Try to stake players where adding your money may enable them to play a higher level with a solid bankroll, or solidify their position at their current level. The people who most need staking are the ones who are already winning, and could be making more money - but don't have quite the bankroll to do so. If you've got a great player with a $1200 roll playing $2/4 with 300 bets and making nice profit, contributing $600 would enable that player to beat a higher game for more money. Unfortunately, this leads to rule #10.

10. Players that WIN don't need YOUR money. They'll make it themselves. Sure, everyone goes broke - if you find a pro on his broke time and can get him in the game, you might make a nice profit. But flat out, you don't see many winners "never begging" for stakes.

Little bit of a rant, but this is my experience in the game - and I've been serious about the game for about 11 years now at a high level. Hope they help someone.

mutigers5591 · February 3rd, 2007, 04:11 PM

i think ure wrong on alot of things detroit

staking CAN be profitable in series stakes with a good horse

and there are so many good players on this site with poor br management who can own sngs/mtts that they are worth staking for sure and hell u can even root for the mto lose their money so they come bakc looking for a stake

person that coems to mind is golions, he rarely has stars money and it is +ev to stake someeon who can win u 3k easily

WEC · February 6th, 2007, 09:53 AM

I have to agree that Detroit is more "simplistic" in some of his analysis than "factual".

One area he is way off base -- there are quite a few winners that need money. If poker were a vacuum and that was the only thing peeps spent money on--he might be right on..

For example--someone initials TJ in the past had horrific br management and a craps massive "leak" (and is backed in 100% of tournys) I have been in live tournys where some of the best pros win 40 K, go out for the evening) and dont have the buyin for the next days tounry..I could go on and on--but the easy (but incorrect) suggestion is winning players dont need backing--or it is unprofitable to back--Couldnt be further from the truth from my experience.

Just my two cents on it

PS Almost forgot most famous player to be staked in just about every event or cash game he played--and he is suppossed to be the best poker player ever--of course, Stu Unger

dadetroitkid · February 7th, 2007, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mutigers5591

i think ure wrong on alot of things detroit

staking CAN be profitable in series stakes with a good horse

and there are so many good players on this site with poor br management who can own sngs/mtts that they are worth staking for sure and hell u can even root for the mto lose their money so they come bakc looking for a stake

person that coems to mind is golions, he rarely has stars money and it is +ev to stake someeon who can win u 3k easily

OK - got a big problem with your statement.

A good player doesn't have poor BR management. Winning players know that the only way to keep winning is to have the money to play with in the first place.

Dude, golions doesn't come to mind at all... where's his big hit? He's not even in the Top 10 rated players here, so what did he really win for stakers here?

If you stake lots of small MTT's, you're in a crapshoot till someone gets lucky. Sure, there are plenty of skilled players here, what I'm trying to stress is that you have to really wade through them, and find out what's real and what's not.

Most of the "good" players here have multiple accounts with different stats on them to hide how close it was back that they were a losing player.

I'm biased, I play cashgames for the majority of my money, whereas most here are playing tourneys looking for big scores. There's pitfalls both ways.

philivey123422 · February 7th, 2007, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dadetroitkid

OK - got a big problem with your statement.

A good player doesn't have poor BR management. Winning players know that the only way to keep winning is to have the money to play with in the first place.

Dude, golions doesn't come to mind at all... where's his big hit? He's not even in the Top 10 rated players here, so what did he really win for stakers here?

If you stake lots of small MTT's, you're in a crapshoot till someone gets lucky. Sure, there are plenty of skilled players here, what I'm trying to stress is that you have to really wade through them, and find out what's real and what's not.

Most of the "good" players here have multiple accounts with different stats on them to hide how close it was back that they were a losing player.

I'm biased, I play cashgames for the majority of my money, whereas most here are playing tourneys looking for big scores. There's pitfalls both ways.

Most? LOL, if you could name even 25 percent of the good players with multiple accounts, I'd pay you...

glpm56 · February 7th, 2007, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philivey123422

Most? LOL, if you could name even 25 percent of the good players with multiple accounts, I'd pay you...

i had an old ac**** before i learned how to play decent but i dont hide it and you can not say my game is not improved

4 man from old account
ohioguy23 45 -$2 $5 -24% -$77 with a fish bowl

4man now
ohioguy26 521 $1 $6 11% $343

so which is a better barometer for how i play?

old account overall
ohioguy23 481 -$2 $6 -24% -$799 with a fish bowl

new account overall
ohioguy26 990 $0 $7 0% -$139
negatve profit only because i lost some 20-50 dolar sngs

DerangedPlaya · February 8th, 2007, 03:26 AM

Did my first stake today here. To IGOTMUFFINZ. Small stake and she didn't have a BR at the time. * I had 345$ at the time* And I wanted to see how she played put her in a 3.30 C MTT and she got to paying. I knew she was a good player because she was on the TOP RATED PLAYERS Liste before. and it was really cool. So not all good players hav BR"s I didnt as of oo.. Yesterday. My good friend from Lodon staked me 350$ which I doubled and sent back and now have a roll of my own.

So like other people have commeneted your wrong.

glpm56 · February 8th, 2007, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerangedPlaya

Did my first stake today here. To IGOTMUFFINZ. Small stake and she didn't have a BR at the time. * I had 345$ at the time* And I wanted to see how she played put her in a 3.30 C MTT and she got to paying. I knew she was a good player because she was on the TOP RATED PLAYERS Liste before. and it was really cool. So not all good players hav BR"s I didnt as of oo.. Yesterday. My good friend from Lodon staked me 350$ which I doubled and sent back and now have a roll of my own.

So like other people have commeneted your wrong.

be careful with that top rated player list ive been rolled by 3 people on top rated list only 1 that is upo there currently but dont go by that alone

onett = a filthy rolling degen who owes to 2players on here now

dadetroitkid · February 8th, 2007, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philivey123422

Most? LOL, if you could name even 25 percent of the good players with multiple accounts, I'd pay you...

I'm talking about the supposed "good" players on this site, not on Stars as a whole.

But, just in case you weren't thinking in that way, one of the Top 5 in the world is a multiaccounter? The spirit in the rocks...

dadetroitkid · February 8th, 2007, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerangedPlaya

Did my first stake today here. To IGOTMUFFINZ. Small stake and she didn't have a BR at the time. * I had 345$ at the time* And I wanted to see how she played put her in a 3.30 C MTT and she got to paying. I knew she was a good player because she was on the TOP RATED PLAYERS Liste before. and it was really cool. So not all good players hav BR"s I didnt as of oo.. Yesterday. My good friend from Lodon staked me 350$ which I doubled and sent back and now have a roll of my own.

So like other people have commeneted your wrong.

I'm not saying you won't cash, or that everyone plays badly.

I'm saying staking in MTT's is a crapshoot. Sure, having a good player helps, but getting BIG wins is definitely few and far between.

I'm not wrong - you may not agree with me, but I'm not wrong. Let's be realistic here... if you stake someone for the $215, that averages a 6k player field. Many of the people who play are in on satellites, and aren't great players. That's a WSOP style minefield with less starting chips.

Yes, you can win - but I'd say most of the people that stake here do it for the wrong reasons. My stakes, I'll usually just hand out some money just because I've been hooked up in the past. I never go in expecting to win.

I'm not a big staker, but I haven't taken a lot of stakes either. So, take it for what its worth. This is supposed to be a tips post, and to be quite honest, my biggest advice is to NOT stake a player other than to be cool and try to get someone started.

I've seen a lot of it here - Player A stakes Player B, Player B does something god-awful stupid and loses or plays above the bankroll, and loses or runs.

Player A is then broke because he put up a large portion of his bankroll/real-life money because he staked Player B. Player A is then ****ed.

Go *read* shooting off. Happens all the time, so I guess the biggest point I've been trying to make in this entire rant is DON'T STAKE MONEY YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO LOSE.

mutigers5591 · February 9th, 2007, 01:46 AM

if u think staking has to be a losing proposition u are kidding yourself (not talking about a lucky mtt hit either)

i can almost guaranttee philivey has made money staking in the last 6 months bc he is the smartest staker on neverbeg and he sets guideleines for his horses

glpm56 · February 9th, 2007, 04:55 AM

<-------------------is also up from staking

DerDono · February 9th, 2007, 12:15 PM

sharkscope + decent stakerules + enough buyins for the horse to compensate variance = a good possibility to make money

i might be stating the obvious here, but stakeroll management is similar to normal bankroll management: Don't fire your complete roll into 1 stake, split it up over many ppl who are all +ev in the region u stake, and ofc have a healthy reserve to build from if things go pearshaped

sheket · February 12th, 2007, 08:41 AM

ITM is a very highly overlooked criteria in staking......if you stake a 40% ITM player you will cash more and more often than a 2 hit wonder who cashes big.

DO THE MATH.

ONLY stake players with 35% ITM and higher.

Kooldude904 · February 12th, 2007, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheket

ITM is a very highly overlooked criteria in staking......if you stake a 40% ITM player you will cash more and more often than a 2 hit wonder who cashes big.

DO THE MATH.

ONLY stake players with 35% ITM and higher.

-ev in the long run

ppl who squeak itm once every 2 tourneys are rly losing money

one guy can lose 100 tourneys then win one and have like a 500% ROI

u do the math

sheket · February 13th, 2007, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kooldude904

-ev in the long run

ppl who squeak itm once every 2 tourneys are rly losing money

one guy can lose 100 tourneys then win one and have like a 500% ROI

u do the math

Well, you find that player and stake him 499 times to only have someone else stake him that 500th time and watch them split the profits.

Also staker makes less if he cashes only once...since he absorbs all losses to that point, and player takes half of the proceeds on the time he does score (only makes a difference if player is willing to cover all previous losses too with that 1 big win...otherwise staker will lose more likely than not).

This thread is about showing stakers how to maintain their cash and profit...not hope for that 1 in a million cash (and prob. watch someone else do it the second they stop).