Player overall profits/loss

[onebarg]

As far as I can tell, the only way to figure out how much a player has won or lost overall is adding up the Winnings column and subtracting the Amount column. The player points don't hold losses against them so they somewhat inflate how players look. Anyone else think it could be helpful to a staker to know a player's total profit or loss quickly and easily?

Just a random thought brought to you by insomnia.

[doakes]

I know I’m new to the forums, but it’s not the first time I’ve been that, play a lot of video games and gamers love forums. So I know my opinion means squat, and hopefully I earn some respect along the way. I honestly am torn on the concept of overall profit/loss totals, sometimes they are great, but I also believe that just those pure numbers left alone can be a total mistake in your decision making process for staking a player. I believe you have to look at his particular skill sets; maybe he’s taking sponsorship without taking a hard look at his position. Maybe s/he’s a solid player in the non-traditional tournaments/cash games (Omaha, stud, etc), but because the majority is offered in no limit hold’em, s/he plays his weakest game (I know that sounds funny, but its potentially that). Another thing is you have to look at what events/tournaments s/he’s cashed or done well in. There a list of a few things I believe you should take into account while making a decision to stake or not.

1. Reliability (If you can’t trust, then why even invest)
2. Average Cash / Average Buy-In
3. What settings this player thrives at (Is s/he an AM player, deep stack, longer rounds, etc… I know this is an environmental issue, but remember humans are a creature of habit, and you throw someone out of their habit, they tend to do poorly like a fish out of water)
4. Player Ideology (His/Her philosophy, if philosophy differs you have a potential animosity problem if things go negatively, and then you have a bad business relationship on your hands)
5. Tilt Control (This is huge, if s/he can handle the pressure for money)
6. Player Observation (See how s/he does under pressure, and your scrutiny)
7. Financial ramifications of this deal on my own personal bankroll and livelihood
8. Would I allow the person in my house, around my family, etc (Goes back to trust, but as a live player backer this can be huge)

[onebarg]

I'm by no means saying to throw out all of that and just go with stats. I just think we could be given stats that are more useful than what we have been given.

[doakes]

Its the internet, I figure we could find a way to do what we want in that relation :-p. Should sit down and try and figure a formula to it, basically create a beyer's speed rating number (horse race thing) for poker players but that would have to entail a better reporting system then we currently have on most sites that report win/loss stats, it doesn't take into account session length, and other things :-).

[onebarg]

Originally Posted by doakes

Its the internet, I figure we could find a way to do what we want in that relation :-p. Should sit down and try and figure a formula to it, basically create a beyer's speed rating number (horse race thing) for poker players but that would have to entail a better reporting system then we currently have on most sites that report win/loss stats, it doesn't take into account session length, and other things :-).

For the purposes of this site, I've already been doing a quick and dirty sum of "My Stakes" to see how players have done here. It's not complete (BAPs aren't there, and obviously who knows how honest it is) but it's something. If I did it more than once or twice a week I might consider doing some screen-scraping instead of the more manual approach.

[dapfunkera]

very simple - buy the advance version of thepokerdb.com and you get all that and more for each player. Use Sharkscope for the SNG side and you know exactly how someone plays.

[onebarg]

Originally Posted by dapfunkera

very simple - buy the advance version of thepokerdb.com and you get all that and more for each player. Use Sharkscope for the SNG side and you know exactly how someone plays.

My focus for this thread was just staking results at Neverbeg.

[dapfunkera]

Originally Posted by onebarg

My focus for this thread was just staking results at Neverbeg.

I understand, but what does it matter if someone is on a stake or not. Say 2 people played 200 MTTs. 10 of them were staked on here.

Player A has a profit of $500 over those 10 MTTs, but a loss of $2000 over the other 190.

Player B has a loss of $500 over thos 10 MTTs, but a profit of over $2000 on the other 190.

Just my thoughts - you would see Player A having 500 points and Player B having -500 points. I am choosing player B every single time!-

[onebarg]

Originally Posted by dapfunkera

I understand, but what does it matter if someone is on a stake or not. Say 2 people played 200 MTTs. 10 of them were staked on here.

Player A has a profit of $500 over those 10 MTTs, but a loss of $2000 over the other 190.

Player B has a loss of $500 over thos 10 MTTs, but a profit of over $2000 on the other 190.

Just my thoughts - you would see Player A having 500 points and Player B having -500 points. I am choosing player B every single time!-

I never said I'd choose solely on staking stats. Just that I think total wins or losses here are more important and more accurate than the current Player Points. Everything needs to be taken into consideration, I'm just asking for more data (actually, I'm not even asking for more data, just better presented data).

And, while it may not be part of the point I'm actually trying to argue here, but it's entirely possible your player B doesn't take stakes seriously and is reckless when playing with OPM but serious when playing with their own. I'd need a significant sample size to come to that conclusion, though.

[StampyDodo]

The reason this point is important ie because some people play completely different when their being staked as opposed to playing on their own money. Therefore SS and DB aren't always reliable indicators. Why do they do that? Thats a different discussion all together.

[dapfunkera]

Originally Posted by StampyDodo

The reason this point is important ie because some people play completely different when their being staked as opposed to playing on their own money. Therefore SS and DB aren't always reliable indicators. Why do they do that? Thats a different discussion all together.

I think this is more for lower stakes? I really don't know. I have only done a few stakes.

I play the same no matter what. In the end I am trying to win no matter who is putting up the money.

[Ozren]

figure it out dog

[herschelw]

Most players play worse staked for a number of reasons. A small number play better because they no longer worry about the money and that frees them to take more chances.