Interesting A K situation in 6 max cash game

philivey123422 · February 26th, 2008, 08:36 PM

How do you play A K in this spot? Just got to the table, haven't been here for more than 20 hands.

PokerStars Game #xxxxxxxxxxxx: Hold'em No Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2008/02/26 - 15:29:59 (ET)
Table 'Benetnash' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: philivey6922 ($99.50 in chips)
Seat 2: RochusN ($141.90 in chips)
Seat 3: burghsbus1 ($130.40 in chips)
Seat 4: Red Beaver ($121.60 in chips)
Seat 5: reececalgary ($79.80 in chips)
Seat 6: Takaa ($105.10 in chips)
RochusN: posts small blind $0.50
burghsbus1: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to philivey6922 [Ad Kc]
Red Beaver: folds
reececalgary: folds
Takaa: folds
philivey6922: raises $2 to $3
RochusN: raises $10 to $13
burghsbus1: folds
philivey6922: calls $10
*** FLOP *** [Ah Th 8h]
RochusN: bets $18

BrandonPL · February 26th, 2008, 08:43 PM

Do you have any PT stats on the player?

philivey123422 · February 26th, 2008, 08:45 PM

I don't even use PT anymore, guess I should

BrandonPL · February 26th, 2008, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philivey123422

I don't even use PT anymore, guess I should

Yeah I couldn't even imagine cash games online w/o PT, especially 6 handed.

As for the hand, I am going to call behind there a majority of the time and give him a chance to fire on the turn if we are ahead while keeping the pot small if we are behind.

Hartlin · February 26th, 2008, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrandonPL

Yeah I couldn't even imagine cash games online w/o PT, especially 6 handed.

As for the hand, I am going to call behind there a majority of the time and give him a chance to fire on the turn if we are ahead while keeping the pot small if we are behind.

Ever 4bet PF?

BrandonPL · February 26th, 2008, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hartlin

Ever 4bet PF?

50% of the time

valueshove · February 27th, 2008, 12:30 PM

I 4bet most of the time here but calling in position is ok. On the flop yeah just call and re-eval turn.

Huy Bam · February 27th, 2008, 02:38 PM

I also advocate 4-betting PF.
However, contrary to most, I'd r/f this flop.

Sharukh10 · February 29th, 2008, 10:22 PM

Raise folding this flop is pretty awful. Either call and wait for a safe turn or just get it in.

Don't know how aggressive .5/1 on stars is playing but depending on your image a reraise to 31 can induce people to go crazy. People have 5 bet shove 109s AQ AJ against me in these positions (playing 1/2).

Huy Bam · March 3rd, 2008, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharukh10

Raise folding this flop is pretty awful. Either call and wait for a safe turn or just get it in.

Don't know how aggressive .5/1 on stars is playing but depending on your image a reraise to 31 can induce people to go crazy. People have 5 bet shove 109s AQ AJ against me in these positions (playing 1/2).

Are you kidding? AK sucks against his flop 3-betting range (I don't have pokerstove cause i'm at school right now, but even if he's holding KT, which would prolly be at the lower range of his range, AK would still be only 56%. If you add in his flopped 2pr, sets, flushes, AxKh you're sooooo far behind, even if he has air ~10% of the time

KhaosTheory · March 4th, 2008, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huy Bam

Are you kidding? AK sucks against his flop 3-betting range (I don't have pokerstove cause i'm at school right now, but even if he's holding KT, which would prolly be at the lower range of his range, AK would still be only 56%. If you add in his flopped 2pr, sets, flushes, AxKh you're sooooo far behind, even if he has air ~10% of the time

did you just say that AK is 56% against KT?

anyways, raising on this flop with no redraws is pretty awful, I'm putting him on a possibility of 3 hands on the flop. either AK with the K of hearts, a set of tens or AQ (possibly Q of hearts). Basically, your no more better then a 2 to 1 favorite IMO on this flop, if your even in the lead. I call behind him and hope for a safe turn, if the turns a blank and he checks, I would throw out a 2/3 size pot bet to see if he has the flush, if he raises im out, if he calls im praying no more hearts.

icecoldriva · March 4th, 2008, 03:48 AM

hrmmm... i saw someone mention 4 betting... i highly advocate not 4 betting because for 80% of the ppl on 100 max 3 betting means they are happy to get it in and you don't know anything about this player. I also find that a lot of ppl's three bet ranges are like AK QQ KK AA. this obviously is not true at higher stakes or for good loose players at this level.

anyways that being said its perfectly fine to fold preflop with ak sometimes especially if you don't know your players. you don't know what first to act is opening with and you don't know the 2nd guy's 3 betting range. and I find with AK if an ace hits you aren't going to get paid off if he had QQ so you really aren't getting a ton of implied odds to be honest. The ranges are just so narrow for most 100 max players that you are only getting - implied odds when first or 2nd to act hits their set or ace two pair. Anyways that being said...

You gotta get it in here with very imperfect information. he's gonna be happy to get in with KK or QQ with the heart or AK heart or no heart or AQ with a heart or whatever is in his 3 bet range... maybe KQ with a heart if he has a slightly wider 3 bet range. he could obviously have 3 bet 10 10 or 8 8 but if you play AK calling this 3 bet you are really planning on playing a flop like this as the nuts for you. So I vote for get it in but preflop I think you could have stayed out a couple to avoid spots like these until you had more information about people's styles and mentalities.

shat4brains · March 14th, 2008, 06:18 AM

4-bet and get it in here most of the time as played raise/call or shove which is what i prefer as it can look like a draw

dmk · March 14th, 2008, 02:53 PM

you guys are nuts. there's no reason to 4-bet here

a) we have position
b) he's 3-betting out of the SB, which shows a little more strength than 3-betting out of the BB or on the button. in general, people are way less likely to 3-bet from the SB for whatever reason

standard calldown from here

rounder2413 · March 14th, 2008, 08:29 PM

Never 4 betting PF with hands like QQ KK AA, AK, is just stupid weak. Sometimes if you're playing at an aggressive enough table you have to be able to put a 4 bet bluff in to your range, espescially when people are 3 betting you lightly. Never 4 betting is not smart imo. If this guy has been 3 betting you lightly, I 4 bet and get it in easily.

OTF, I flat call here and re evaluate the turn. Raise/folding is HORRIBLE here. If you do raise, you're raising for value vs AJ AQ and hands like that, and you cannot fold to a shove ever.

sizzlinbetta · March 26th, 2008, 05:08 PM

rounder is the only person here w/ 1/2 a brain.

D.E Million · March 26th, 2008, 06:01 PM

i would almost guarentee he has a pp ( kk qq or jj ) judging by his pre flop re raise it was to big to be aces, and you have ace and a king out of the deck so qq really stands out to me, with such a big flop bet i would also assume he has a heart i really believe that you outfloppd him here and he needs a heart or a queen to win. i put him right on qq here and if no heart shows up i would call it down to the river i guess he could have ten ten but qq or jj is the most likely holdings for him here if a heart shows up i really think your beat i think his post flop actio nwould be different if he wasnt holding a heart i do think the third most likeley scenario is that you both hold ace king

as for re raising pre flop thats jsut silly with ace king in a cash game its not tournament poker the only hand i would repop him with here is aa and even then i would probaly jsut call and trap after the flop tourney donk poker is way different than cash youll go broke fast tryin to play flips for cash

valueshove · March 26th, 2008, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D.E Million

i would repop him with here is aa and even then i would probaly jsut call and trap after the flop tourney donk poker is way different than cash youll go broke fast tryin to play flips for cash

Don't you see how exploitable this is?

To be able to beat 100nl and above you need to be able to widen your 4betting ranges against 20/17 types, which there are alot of.

Otherwise, you suck or are a supernit. And supernits suck aswell

D.E Million · March 26th, 2008, 06:57 PM

why is this exploitable? i dont understand the guys is screaming he has a big pair and you ahve aa why not call and get all his money when the flop comes why risk him mucking his hand if there are more players in between to call i understand.. it sounds to me like your maybe playing to much tourney style in your cash game play. ive watched almost every eposide of high stakes poker and saw maybe like 3 tims someone put the third raise in pre flop ( rasied re raise, reraised again) so they are all exploitable? or superntis and the times they did one player had the ace ace and was so much dead money in he didnt want to see a flop

dmk · March 26th, 2008, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sizzlinbetta

rounder is the only person here w/ 1/2 a brain.

i don't recall anyone saying "never 4-bet", let alone "never 4-bet QQ+/AK"

i said you have position and AK - call the 3-bet and see a flop

if i were OOP, i'm way more likely to 4-bet