What do you think of this hand? Losing a full buyin here every time?

philivey123422 · March 9th, 2008, 04:03 PM

PokerStars Game #15852992222: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2008/03/09 - 10:56:42 (ET)
Table 'Hveen' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: Villeroi ($253 in chips)
Seat 3: hirvi34 ($193.35 in chips)
Seat 5: AbacabDonkey ($195 in chips)
Seat 6: philivey6922 ($198 in chips)
AbacabDonkey: posts small blind $1
philivey6922: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to philivey6922 [Qd Qc]
Villeroi: folds
hirvi34: folds
AbacabDonkey: raises $6 to $8
philivey6922: raises $18 to $26
AbacabDonkey: calls $18
*** FLOP *** [2c 4c 2d]
AbacabDonkey: checks
philivey6922: bets $36
AbacabDonkey: calls $36
*** TURN *** [2c 4c 2d] [5s]
AbacabDonkey: checks
philivey6922: bets $84
AbacabDonkey: raises $49 to $133 and is all-in
philivey6922: calls $49
rvdb01 joins the table at seat #4
*** RIVER *** [2c 4c 2d 5s] [8s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
AbacabDonkey: shows [Ac As] (two pair, Aces and Deuces)
philivey6922: mucks hand
AbacabDonkey collected $388 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $390 | Rake $2
Board [2c 4c 2d 5s 8s]
Seat 1: Villeroi folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: hirvi34 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: AbacabDonkey (small blind) showed [Ac As] and won ($388) with two pair, Aces and Deuces
Seat 6: philivey6922 (big blind) mucked [Qd Qc]

Hartlin · March 9th, 2008, 04:31 PM

unless you read him as a trappy player, yes

otherwise you could check behind the turn for pot control

mutigers5591 · March 9th, 2008, 09:37 PM

id go broke

rounder2413 · March 9th, 2008, 09:47 PM

Going broke here all the time.

333gooner333 · March 9th, 2008, 10:00 PM

ya gotta go broke here

BrandonPL · March 9th, 2008, 10:36 PM

I actually don't know if I go broke here every time.

I wish you hadn't posted the results in this one but I still don't think I am being results oriented.

So lets take a look at his play. He raises pre and calls a re-raise OOP. With him having to call another $18 pre and having under $180 behind after calling, he shouldn't be calling to set mine. From there I would give him a legit hand. AA-TT, AK, AQ. If we had a VPIP # on him, we might be able to expand or narrow his range.

Okay so the flop hits 224 and he just check calls. To me thats a huge sign of strength. Why? Because he doesn't feel the need to chk raise his hand to either protect it or find out where he is. If he had a hand like AKc he is absolutely going to be semi-bluff check raising here the majority of the time. AKo/AQ I just don't see floating you OOP here. He is either going to make a play for the pot or just let it go when he misses. How about mid pairs like TT, JJ. I think almost every player would check raise those hands and then fold them to a shove. A check call doesn't really make sense with them. That really only leaves AA or maybe KK where he feels he absolutely has the best hand, he doesn't need to protect it, and is going to tap down with it.

In your spot, I am checking behind on the turn for pot control nearly every time and then either calling or folding the river.

valueshove · March 10th, 2008, 01:45 PM

Without stats you're obviously going broke here every time. And if I was the villain in this hand check raising any pair with intention to fold to a shove is terrible. Against an unknown you have to assume he'll go broke with lots of mid pairs.

Also I hate his line aswell

BrandonPL · March 10th, 2008, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by valueshove

Without stats you're obviously going broke here every time. And if I was the villain in this hand check raising any pair with intention to fold to a shove is terrible. Against an unknown you have to assume he'll go broke with lots of mid pairs.

Also I hate his line aswell

How can you hate his line? He played about as perfectly as possible.

valueshove · March 11th, 2008, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrandonPL

How can you hate his line? He played about as perfectly as possible.

Leading the flop and getting it in there and then on that board would be perfect. Giving a cheap card on the flop and an option of a free one on the turn, which most players will take(including you and I) is not perfect.
When the hero checks behind on the turn which will be the case alot, villain still has 133 to get into a pot of 124 on the river, which is nearly impossible as the hero folds to a shove and is never raising a value bet.

It happened to work out this time, but leading the flop is far superior imo.

dmk · March 12th, 2008, 07:47 PM

i agree w/ valueshove. honestly, i think a crai from villian on the flop gets looked up so much by hero given the pf action, etc, that its probably best. leading gets $ in often as well. this line doesn't get anything out of hands like AQ, AK, 77, etc.

if he crai, hes going to get looked up often because its such an easy board to bluff. same with a lead. he's going to get hero to either calldown or raise with something like TT/99, etc a lot more often (or get hero to bluff AK, and so on)

that said, i'm going broke everytime

shat4brains · March 14th, 2008, 06:21 AM

i like to check and let a 77 88 hand commit himself

shat4brains · March 14th, 2008, 06:21 AM

on the turn that is

BrandonPL · March 14th, 2008, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by valueshove

Leading the flop and getting it in there and then on that board would be perfect. Giving a cheap card on the flop and an option of a free one on the turn, which most players will take(including you and I) is not perfect.
When the hero checks behind on the turn which will be the case alot, villain still has 133 to get into a pot of 124 on the river, which is nearly impossible as the hero folds to a shove and is never raising a value bet.

It happened to work out this time, but leading the flop is far superior imo.

Yeah I do like this line better.