two tough spots with QQ

[PartTimePoker]

well, maybe no so tough, who knows. results in white below each hand, pretty readless on opponents, i've been fairly aggressive.

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
5 players

Stack sizes:
Hero: $104.15
CO: $98.40
Button: $101.50
SB: $81.80
BB: $125.95

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is UTG with qd qs
Hero raises to $3, 2 folds, SB raises to $9, BB folds, Hero calls.

Flop: 9d th 6s ($19, 2 players)
SB bets $12, Hero calls.

Turn: tc ($43, 2 players)
SB bets $27, Hero...

folds.
Uncalled bets: $27 returned to SB.

Results:
Final pot: $43


Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
5 players

Stack sizes:
UTG: $94.15
Hero: $176.75
Button: $102.80
SB: $102.50
BB: $137.30

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is CO with qs qh
UTG calls, Hero raises to $4, Button raises to $13, 3 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: 4c ks td ($28.5, 2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: 3d ($28.5, 2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $21.5, Hero calls.

River: 6s ($71.5, 2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $55.5, Hero...

folds.
Uncalled bets: $55.5 returned to Button.

Results:
Final pot: $71.5

[valueshove]

both look fine

[shat4brains]

both are quite bad imo at 100nl you NEED to be 4-betting QQ like 90% of the time and stack off with them, also i would , open raise bigger.

[BrandonPL]

Originally Posted by shat4brains

both are quite bad imo at 100nl you NEED to be 4-betting QQ like 90% of the time and stack off with them, also i would , open raise bigger.

I 100% disagree with this statement. Even at 100nl, I am almost never stacking off QQ pre.

[BrandonPL]

Okay so hand one. I like the play pre. On the flop though I think you need to make a decision. Either try to pick up the pot there with a raise or let it go if you think you are behind. I think a call there allows him to continue to bet the turn when you have the best and you will have to fold to his bet. If he re-raises or even flats, I am done with the hand there.

On hand 2, I would likely re-raise QQ in that situation with you being a late position raiser and him re-raising from the button. He has a large range and you don't mind picking up what he has already put in uncontested. If I do just smooth call, you need to make a decision on the turn again. Either you are going to call the turn and river or you need to fold the turn. The call is a major spew IMO when you aren't going to call the river when the board doesn't improve his hands at all. I would guess he probably flopped top set of kings in that hand. Usually after 3 betting someone will c-bet everything except maybe the nuts. I might take a small stab lead on the turn in case he had a hand like JJ, 99, AQ and will just give it up but I doubt that will be the case very often.

[valueshove]

Originally Posted by shat4brains

both are quite bad imo at 100nl you NEED to be 4-betting QQ like 90% of the time and stack off with them, also i would , open raise bigger.

Hand 1 is a pretty bad spot to 4bet. You can't assume the villains 3betting an UTG raise lightly and 4betting is overrepping your hand and folds out everything you beat.

In hand 2 I 4bet and call a shove alot of the time.

Originally Posted by BrandonPL

Okay so hand one. I like the play pre. On the flop though I think you need to make a decision. Either try to pick up the pot there with a raise or let it go if you think you are behind. I think a call there allows him to continue to bet the turn when you have the best and you will have to fold to his bet. If he re-raises or even flats, I am done with the hand there.

If you think you have the best hand why would you raise? Let him bluff missed overs and "valuebet" JJ. Calling the flop is so superior as you get value from weaker hands and you get information for cheaper. It's unlikely he's firing 2 barrells with any hand you're ahead of so when he bets the turn we can safely fold.

Hand 2

I might take a small stab lead on the turn in case he had a hand like JJ, 99, AQ and will just give it up but I doubt that will be the case very often.

We have QQ, why fold out weaker hands?



Also Thank god I can datamine on Ipoker

[dmk]

hand 1 is good
hand 2 fold riv. i hate c/c the turn only to c/f the river when the river is inconsequential like this. i guess you're supposed to c/f the turn? seems weak, meh

[BrandonPL]

Originally Posted by valueshove

Hand 1 is a pretty bad spot to 4bet. You can't assume the villains 3betting an UTG raise lightly and 4betting is overrepping your hand and folds out everything you beat.

In hand 2 I 4bet and call a shove alot of the time.





If you think you have the best hand why would you raise? Let him bluff missed overs and "valuebet" JJ. Calling the flop is so superior as you get value from weaker hands and you get information for cheaper. It's unlikely he's firing 2 barrells with any hand you're ahead of so when he bets the turn we can safely fold.

I disagree with him rarely firing hands we have beat again on the turn. I think most players, especially aggressive players (this is where PT stats would really help me make my decision here) would fire again on the turn with JJ and AK. Neither one is beating us and we can't call his bet. He is firing AA or KK here too. The problem I have with the hand is that we really have very little way to actually win here. Let's take a look:
Option 1: Call flop. Fold to turn bet = Lose.
Option 2: Raise flop bet = Might win pot there or fold to a re-raise and know we are beat.
Option 3: Call flop get checked to on the turn and then have to decide if we want to pot control and not give him the chance to check raise with a AA or KK (which I think a lot of people do here) or try to fire to pick up the pot when he has AK. The hardest thing is that if he is a good player who can think hands out, he could easily check raise bluff here with AK also. I know I do it on a fairly regular basis because QQ just cannot call.

I completely understand your point of view and I would agree with it in most situations. However, in this case here I think a raise on the flop will put us in a better situation. The other player might even smooth call the flop raise looking to c/r the turn. We can check behind the turn a lot of the time here and keep the pot small. Pay off his river bet which will be small with how we played the hand when he does have the overpair. Valuebet if checked to and hope to get called by JJ. I just think we give ourself a chance to lose less and still win a decent pot this way.

Originally Posted by valueshove

Hand 2


We have QQ, why fold out weaker hands?

Again, if he is going to call the turn and then fold on the river, then I think we need to try to pick the pot up on the turn. If he was planning to call/call then I wouldn't bet the QQ on the turn and let the other player fire when he has worse hands.

The more I think about this hand the more I am positive I 4 bet it pre almost every time.

[valueshove]

Yeah I understand your way of thinking. I agree though in that if we had PT stats on the villain we know for sure whether he's likely to double barrell light or not.