PLO Cash Question...interesting hand.

[GrandPrixGT]

So a friend of mine and I were talking on AIM and he brought up a hand he played in PLO cash. He told me he folds good, so I asked why. He said he folded after flopping the nuts in this PLO cash game on AP.

Stage #932440621: Omaha Pot Limit $2 - 2008-03-15 04:32:22 (ET)
Table: PATSY ST (Real Money) Seat #5 is the dealer
Seat 5 - IM_A_FISHHHH ($127.75 in chips)
Seat 6 - MRMERSH ($381.80 in chips)
Seat 1 - FOLLOWTHEQ ($285.85 in chips)
Seat 2 - SNUGGLEBEAR ($92.10 in chips)
Seat 3 - SPREADHEAD85 ($309.55 in chips)
Seat 4 - GRINDIN777 ($80 in chips)
MRMERSH - Posts small blind $1
FOLLOWTHEQ - Posts big blind $2
GRINDIN777 - sitout (wait for BB)
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to FOLLOWTHEQ [7c 8s 8d 4h]
SNUGGLEBEAR - Calls $2
SPREADHEAD85 - Raises $4 to $4
IM_A_FISHHHH - Calls $4
MRMERSH - Calls $3
FOLLOWTHEQ - Calls $2
SNUGGLEBEAR - Calls $2
*** FLOP *** [5d 4d 6c]
MRMERSH - Checks
FOLLOWTHEQ - Checks
SNUGGLEBEAR - Checks
SPREADHEAD85 - Bets $8
IM_A_FISHHHH - Calls $8
MRMERSH - Raises $50 to $50
FOLLOWTHEQ - Folds
SNUGGLEBEAR - All-In(Raise) $88.10 to $88.10
SPREADHEAD85 - Folds
IM_A_FISHHHH - Folds
MRMERSH - Calls $38.10
*** TURN *** [5d 4d 6c] [Jd]
*** RIVER *** [5d 4d 6c Jd] [Qh]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
SNUGGLEBEAR - Shows [Qc 2d Kd 3c] (Flush, king high)
MRMERSH - Shows [7s 3d As 8c] (Straight, four to eight)
SNUGGLEBEAR Collects $209.20 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($212.20) | Rake ($3)
Board [5d 4d 6c Jd Qh]
Seat 1: FOLLOWTHEQ (big blind) Folded on the FLOP
Seat 2: SNUGGLEBEAR won Total ($209.20) All-In HI$209.20) with Flush, king high [Qc 2d Kd 3c - P:Kd,B:Jd,B:5d,B:4d,P:2d]
Seat 3: SPREADHEAD85 Folded on the FLOP
Seat 5: IM_A_FISHHHH (dealer) Folded on the FLOP
Seat 6: MRMERSH (small blind) HI:lost with Straight, four to eight [7s 3d As 8c - P:8c,P:7s,B:6c,B:5d,B:4d]

We discussed it, I finally agreed that maybe there was value in folding...I mean what hands are likely to be shoving here, besides the nuts with potential re-draws, not to mention that the villain has us stacked. Any input?

[nsinger]

Yeah I think a fold is probably best there too. At best you're winning half the pot and there's a very good chance you'll have to dodge a flush/board pair/higher straight. In limped or minraised pots it's fine but if it's been raised pot preflop it's much harder to get away.

[BrandonPL]

Fairly easy fold there IMO. You really never want to be getting all in on the flop there with only a nut straight and no re-draws at all (with the flush draw on board).

[TClermont]

I think this is a very bad fold most of the time at these limits. Lyle Berman said once that he'd fold AK on a TJQ board with 2 diamonds because he was sure no one else at his game would stack off with anything weaker than AK + 2 diamonds or a set + diamond draw. So, in principle, Brandon is right.

The problem is that this isn't high stakes omaha. From my experience, people are very willing to stack off with sets, second or third best straights and naked flush draws at these limits. Even in the given hand, hero has a slim (but still worth something) freeroll vs. the other 78, and has to fade a diamond for half the pot. I'd have to be 95% sure my opponent was as tight as Berman's villains before I'd consider folding the nuts on the flop.

[mattdogg2443]

very easy fold

[zeheckle]

Originally Posted by BrandonPL

Fairly easy fold there IMO. You really never want to be getting all in on the flop there with only a nut straight and no re-draws at all (with the flush draw on board).

+1 always leave ur self extra outs if u can

[part1]

Fold pre that hands not even worth a call

[draw2aflush]

definitely a fold

[TClermont]

Originally Posted by part1

Fold pre that hands not even worth a call

agreed there... still disagree with everyone saying fold on the flop, but to each their own .

[playaAAK8]

First off there is no probelm with calling the min reaise preflop. Secondly this a fold hand. I would even fold a protected nut st8 aka 789x (Please note I would only do this in this exact hand... if there was more money in the pot or if the betting had gone down differently i might have stayed).

With so little money in the pot and pot / repot the play is to fold. You are almost always going to be up against another guy with the nut st8. So the best you can really do is get your money back. Even if you aren't up against nut st8 you will be up against a flush draw and set... and you are a dog against thoose hands.

The key to this hand is that the pot is small, many players saw the flop for cheap so 78 is more likely to be out there, and you have no redraws.