The value of a Min-cash?

IStakeYou · February 8th, 2010, 07:43 PM

I dont think the type of tournament really matters here, but it was plo8 just for reference. 280 runners, 45 pay. There are currently 47 players remaining. We are sitting on 11 BBs, and of course no antes. We are mid position, and dealt a very good starting hand (AK2 with suited ace and backup low for reference). First place pays 50 buyins, and mincash is 1.5 buyins.

I've never worried about the bubble, and always play for first. Given a great chance with a small stack here to double up to a very playable stack and make a real run, I chose to stick my chips in here. Of course I bubble and dont think twice about it until a couple players in the chat converse about "why would he bubble himself like that?".

My question is, am I discounting the value of a mincash? It would certainly be easy to achieve by folding an orbit or so.

loddar_m · February 8th, 2010, 08:03 PM

meh mincashes suck....

but i underrate them too i guess

IStakeYou · February 9th, 2010, 06:18 AM

Ok, Im guessing by the crickets in here that I was right in my thinking, and that I should "STFU no bad beats in strat"

jhill3535 · February 9th, 2010, 08:00 AM

My general thoughts are that I won't pass up on any clearly +cEV plays, but I might pass up on some very close spots that i might not if we were ITM or farther from the money.

I think there is some value in min cashing, especially when we are shorter than you are say 5bb or less and you know the bubble will burst within an orbit

zenman · February 9th, 2010, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhill3535

I think there is some value in min cashing, especially when we are shorter than you are say 5bb or less and you know the bubble will burst within an orbit

+1

I think that if you are so short (say 3 bbs) that a double up does little to elevate your chances of winning the tournament and the bubble will burst soon, then it may be +ev. But at 11 bbs this isn't the spot, you are still alive to win the tourney so you should be happy to find a double up spot, and on the bubble against a bigger stack is often your softest spot.

Also be aware your psyche. There may be an occasion where mincashing as opposed to bubbling can be the confidence booster you need to get out of a bad slump. This shouldn't be the norm but if it can change your next day's play from your C game to your A game

...of course you probably need to work on the reason that's true to begin with.

WallyWorld · February 9th, 2010, 08:27 AM

I am probably wrong, but I think that this is an on-going, no correct answer argument.

xBlah · February 9th, 2010, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zenman

+1

I think that if you are so short (say 3 bbs) that a double up does little to elevate your chances of winning the tournament and the bubble will burst soon, then it may be +ev. But at 11 bbs this isn't the spot, you are still alive to win the tourney so you should be happy to find a double up spot, and on the bubble against a bigger stack is often your softest spot.

Also be aware your psyche. There may be an occasion where mincashing as opposed to bubbling can be the confidence booster you need to get out of a bad slump. This shouldn't be the norm but if it can change your next day's play from your C game to your A game

...of course you probably need to work on the reason that's true to begin with.

^^

pokerismygame7 · February 9th, 2010, 12:51 PM

all depends on your bankroll size to be honest.

scaphism2 · February 9th, 2010, 01:28 PM

In general, people who consider themselves to be good regs undervalue MTT life on money bubble and Ft scenarios and feel like they are being passive or w/e if they give up on marginally +cev shoves to hit the $. In general that kind of conservative strategy is exactly correct in terms of maximizing MTT life equity.

Don't think of MTT life as having a specific linear value. MTT life is pretty linear with chip accumulation but during the money bubble and FT bubbles as well as the FT in general MTT life sharply gains in value.

LOLMSPaint, but here is basically how you should be viewing your tournament life:

brockage1122 · February 9th, 2010, 01:36 PM

like said above, I don't pass clearly +cEV spots but I do play a lot more passive.
it is not just a win of 0,5 buyins, you also get ya buyin back and thats imo reduction of variance.

and when bubble nearly bursts, say 2 people left, than you can just wait and take other spots, esp in O8 without antes. CPR is much lower than in nlhe.

bc38 · February 9th, 2010, 03:41 PM

I am not passing on a chance to shove 8-15 BBs on the bubble if I think I have a good shot at doubling (flips included). Spawning one deep run in that situation will offset many many bubbles. However, if I find myself with < 8 BBs I am less likely to gamble since even if I double up I am still in the range where I need to double soon.