Tricky Q

Acid Hound · February 19th, 2008, 01:01 PM

I had a read that the raiser was loose passive. I dont think he raised UTG once on the bubble yet... This ok or terrible? Stack sizes was a big factor

Full Tilt Poker Game #5316357760: $22 + $2 Sit & Go (Turbo) (40428932), Table 1 - 120/240 - No Limit Hold'em - 7:58:26 ET - 2008/02/19
Seat 1: miromiro (1,490)
Seat 4: Mr Cod (5,075)
Seat 6: yatch13 (4,880)
Seat 7: Acid Hound (2,055)
miromiro posts the small blind of 120
Mr Cod posts the big blind of 240
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Acid Hound [As Ks]
yatch13 raises to 480
Acid Hound has 15 seconds left to act
Acid Hound folds
miromiro has 15 seconds left to act
miromiro folds
Mr Cod folds
Uncalled bet of 240 returned to yatch13
yatch13 mucks
yatch13 wins the pot (600)
The blinds are now 150/300
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 600 | Rake 0
Seat 1: miromiro (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: Mr Cod (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 6: yatch13 collected (600), mucked
Seat 7: Acid Hound (button) didn't bet (folded)

Vedder1980 · February 19th, 2008, 02:37 PM

I am nit STT specialist but i feel 100% in saying anytime your folding AK pre 4 handed with less than 10 bb its a horrible play. The only occasion it is remotely possible is a sattelite. Sorry to sound harsh but this is too passive, 4 handed his range includes aq aj a10 even if hes ubertight. Only 2 hands kill you - the chances of running into them are just so slim. If you bubble so be it

Stu.

Acid Hound · February 19th, 2008, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vedder1980

I am nit STT specialist but i feel 100% in saying anytime your folding AK pre 4 handed with less than 10 bb its a horrible play. The only occasion it is remotely possible is a sattelite. Sorry to sound harsh but this is too passive, 4 handed his range includes aq aj a10 even if hes ubertight. Only 2 hands kill you - the chances of running into them are just so slim. If you bubble so be it

Stu.

I completely kill his range I know that, it wasn a question about that. I know this might be a little too nitty but he was a real nit fwiw which meant to me I was only getting called by races and AQ MAYB. but more important was not going bust. Even if AQ calls, this is a bad result for me...

Vedder1980 · February 19th, 2008, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acid Hound

I completely kill his range I know that, it wasn a question about that. I know this might be a little too nitty but he was a real nit fwiw which meant to me I was only getting called by races and AQ MAYB. but more important was not going bust. Even if AQ calls, this is a bad result for me...

I honestly dont see that at all. Although again i dont play STT so what do i know. You have 8-9 bb and have probably the best hand your going to see for the rest of this tournament - i just dont think you can fear the bubble that much. I dont see how folding here is ever +ev. I will wait and see what guys like andyg and CD think as i could be very wrong.

I am never folding here.

Acid Hound · February 19th, 2008, 03:35 PM

I could be too. It prob is a brain fart but I didn think I'd get called by anything I beat and the folds I'd get dont outweight the times im crushed. like I said, IDK, thats why I posted

rkm140 · February 19th, 2008, 03:38 PM

I have to agree with Vedder, AKs here with a M of less than six you have to push with any decent hand, or at the very least see a flop. I favor the push here over the call. I feel that a fold here is -ev and a push gives you good FE (I think). But none of us were at the table and none of use saw the hands that he played to show down. All of this would come in to play as well. But with the info at hand I would be pushing here.

I am not playing to get my money back; I am playing for the win.

Acid Hound · February 19th, 2008, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkm140

I have to agree with Vedder, AKs here with a M of less than six you have to push with any decent hand, or at the very least see a flop. I favor the push here over the call. I feel that a fold here is -ev and a push gives you good FE (I think). But none of us were at the table and none of use saw the hands that he played to show down. All of this would come in to play as well. But with the info at hand I would be pushing here.

I am not playing to get my money back; I am playing for the win.

Exactly what I used to do in sngs too but its bad. You do in fact play to cash. Thats the most important thing first. If this was an MTT on the bubble or something, insta ship no doubt, but its not and bubbling is awful if you can avoid it. That said I'm still not sure about this

johnny36 · February 19th, 2008, 03:56 PM

tough spot.

I think most of the time I am pushing without a read, and usually I don't when playing 9 mans cause I play a lot of them. The reason is that he'd be folding a % of the time with the mini raise. If he 3x or potted it folding is ok, because, a stt is really like a satty and you are just trying to get itm. AQ would be very quick in the muck though, so ak can go either way. Obv if the shortie had less, it would be an easier fold, and you were the shortie, it would be a def. all-in. The blinds are coming up on you though so it's not like your position is great.

But you said you did have a read and that his raising range is fairly tight, so sound like an ok fold. I think its one of those spots that is close to 0ev so either way isn't a big deal.

Acid Hound · February 19th, 2008, 04:10 PM

^^ actually this is kinda what Im thinking after considering it some more... thanks for the thought out response

Vedder1980 · February 20th, 2008, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny36

tough spot.

I think most of the time I am pushing without a read, and usually I don't when playing 9 mans cause I play a lot of them. The reason is that he'd be folding a % of the time with the mini raise. If he 3x or potted it folding is ok, because, a stt is really like a satty and you are just trying to get itm. AQ would be very quick in the muck though, so ak can go either way. Obv if the shortie had less, it would be an easier fold, and you were the shortie, it would be a def. all-in. The blinds are coming up on you though so it's not like your position is great.

But you said you did have a read and that his raising range is fairly tight, so sound like an ok fold. I think its one of those spots that is close to 0ev so either way isn't a big deal.

He knows what hes talking about

I most certainly dont with stt's which is why my sng stats are good i dont play stt's, lol. They just dont suit me - prob cause im a giant aggro donk.

Stu.

tclark · February 20th, 2008, 03:06 AM

I'd have pushed here, with <10 BBs left, 2BBs ahead of last, and a hand that is a coinflip or better vs. all but 2 hands. Instapush for me.

Thats just me tho...
did you end up cashing here?

sizzlinbetta · February 20th, 2008, 04:20 AM

assuming this is really pay out structure wise a move...but this is a snap shove, this is purely cuz of itm right? i don't really get it cuz your stack isn't much bigger than the short and this is a good spot to double up and win... <confused>?

Acid Hound · February 20th, 2008, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sizzlinbetta

assuming this is really pay out structure wise a move...but this is a snap shove, this is purely cuz of itm right? i don't really get it cuz your stack isn't much bigger than the short and this is a good spot to double up and win... <confused>?

If the shorter stack was even with me, insta shove. If he was much shorter, insta fold. The big stack can be raising ATC which means my equity against him drops with AK as 89 is in better shape than AJ obv. And I simply cannot bubble, its a mortal sin if it can be avoided and obv I don *have* to shove in this spot.

I think I folded in the end b/c I felt he just was quite passive but had trouble letting hands go and I so do not want a call here. I would honestly hate to get called by 89 here...

3 pay btw, ICM dictates my move for the most part, I forgot to run it but its also not a pure maths decision.

bnorris85 · February 20th, 2008, 11:34 AM

shove

AmbroseBurnside · February 20th, 2008, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acid Hound

And I simply cannot bubble, its a mortal sin if it can be avoided and obv I don *have* to shove in this spot.

by doing this, though, you severely hurt your chances at winning the sit n go, which pays so much more than grinding out a 3rd with a 2k stack and even then, you could still bubble!

Rob Plasky · February 20th, 2008, 05:32 PM

Easy decision. Im shoving here all day, and then hoping another table pops up before I see him turn over A4 and the flop of 2 3 5.

In all seriousness though, (at least for me) this is a snap shove. With >10 BB you have to move with this.

aguttorm · February 24th, 2008, 03:50 AM

You've gotta shove here.....you're the one shoving, he's the one with the tough position, you have him beat. I shove all day.

Vedder1980 · February 24th, 2008, 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyguttormsen

You've gotta shove here.....you're the one shoving, he's the one with the tough position, you have him beat. I shove all day.

Ok i have a little faith back in myself

I was starting to doubt it was the right move.

Stu.

Acid Hound · February 25th, 2008, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyguttormsen

You've gotta shove here.....you're the one shoving, he's the one with the tough position, you have him beat. I shove all day.

Would you call if he shoves?