TT UTG first hand of 45 man

[cardsfan04]

I was really close to folding, but changed my mind and called to reevaluate PoF. This should have been a fold though, right?


Full Tilt Poker Game #5445872067: $10 + $1 Sit & Go (41441209), Table 4 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 17:32:18 ET - 2008/02/29
Seat 1: luventas (1,500)
Seat 2: radiohead_03 (1,500)
Seat 3: cardsfan04 (1,500)
Seat 4: BlaznAzn420 (1,500)
Seat 5: MagPriss16 (1,500)
Seat 6: ChiBones (1,500)
Seat 7: jayjaythegreat (1,500)
Seat 8: kp802 (1,500)
Seat 9: mario63 (1,500)
luventas posts the small blind of 15
radiohead_03 posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #9
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to cardsfan04 [Ts Td]
cardsfan04 raises to 90
BlaznAzn420 has 15 seconds left to act
BlaznAzn420 is sitting out
BlaznAzn420 has timed out
BlaznAzn420 folds
MagPriss16 folds
ChiBones folds
jayjaythegreat raises to 315
kp802 folds
mario63 folds
luventas folds
radiohead_03 folds
cardsfan04 calls 225

[mutigers5591]

mos def

[ChestersDad]

ok then, here's a question -- if you are folding to a re-raise preflop, this is basically a steal, no? so is it a pre-flop fold? why steal so soon?

i am not saying i fold it, but it strikes me as interesting.

[cardsfan04]

Originally Posted by ChestersDad

ok then, here's a question -- if you are folding to a re-raise preflop, this is basically a steal, no? so is it a pre-flop fold? why steal so soon?

i am not saying i fold it, but it strikes me as interesting.

A lot of players limp TT in this spot in first level. Some even do JJ. I probably should incorporate that into my game, but I hate open limping so much.

[draw2aflush]

If you are willing to call 1010 here then you are willing to call 22s. cause it is a ? of set mining.

[cardsfan04]

Originally Posted by draw2aflush

If you are willing to call 1010 here then you are willing to call 22s. cause it is a ? of set mining.

I agree. Obv. TT plays a little better just in case we hope he has something like 77-99, but that's pretty optomistic.

I knew it was a bad play as I was making it, but I spew too much. Obv we both hit sets though lol.

[ChestersDad]

Originally Posted by draw2aflush

If you are willing to call 1010 here then you are willing to call 22s. cause it is a ? of set mining.

well, a lotta ppl might re-raise 77+ here, so you are ahead of some of someone's range

limping is not so bad, so if someone makes a standard range, you can usually get enough odds to set mine, and fold to a large raise and lose the min -- otherwise, you turn your TT into a pure steal hand solely

[draw2aflush]

Originally Posted by cardsfan04

I agree. Obv. TT plays a little better just in case we hope he has something like 77-99, but that's pretty optomistic.

I knew it was a bad play as I was making it, but I spew too much. Obv we both hit sets though lol.

IMO you should call. you are closing the action and you are getting his stack if you hit, so you have the right odds to call. this is def a c/f flop if you miss though. of course u both hit sets

[draw2aflush]

so card it was not bad just UL

[draw2aflush]

Originally Posted by ChestersDad

well, a lotta ppl might re-raise 77+ here, so you are ahead of some of someone's range

limping is not so bad, so if someone makes a standard range, you can usually get enough odds to set mine, and fold to a large raise and lose the min -- otherwise, you turn your TT into a pure steal hand solely

i agree with the open limp or even a mini raise to use pot control i think the 10s are very tricky to play from this position at this stage esp.

[cardsfan04]

Originally Posted by draw2aflush

IMO you should call. you are closing the action and you are getting his stack if you hit, so you have the right odds to call. this is def a c/f flop if you miss though. of course u both hit sets

I don't have set mining odds.

[mutigers5591]

i dont think alot of ppl are reraising 77+ at all...

[msusyr24]

anything other than fold is bad

[msusyr24]

and i agree with mu..i think almost no one is reraising with a range of 77+
I say JJ+ and AK

[draw2aflush]

Originally Posted by cardsfan04

I don't have set mining odds.

it is 7.5-1 you will flop a set.

you have to call 225 to win a possible 1,635

OK, sooooooo just bareeely under odds, but easily worth a call for chip value if you flop GIN and stack up

[ChestersDad]

Originally Posted by draw2aflush

it is 7.5-1 you will flop a set.

you have to call 225 to win a possible 1,635

OK, sooooooo just bareeely under odds, but easily worth a call for chip value if you flop GIN and stack up

thats not a good rule of thumb -- u have to get paid off and not lose the hand every time u hit a set if you use 7.5:1 as your set mining rule -- most ppl say u need at least 10:1

[mutigers5591]

Originally Posted by ChestersDad

thats not a good rule of thumb -- u have to get paid off and not lose the hand every time u hit a set if you use 7.5:1 as your set mining rule -- most ppl say u need at least 10:1

+ a big one..im pretty sure 10:1 isnt even good

[draw2aflush]

Originally Posted by ChestersDad

thats not a good rule of thumb -- u have to get paid off and not lose the hand every time u hit a set if you use 7.5:1 as your set mining rule -- most ppl say u need at least 10:1

good point, but I am not sure you need 10:1? I mean chances of 2 players flopping sets is 1.7% and not sure about adding in the strs and flushes to win. Also I think the Raiser has JJ+ like almost always here and will pay you off pretty much always.

Not 100% on this 1

[ChestersDad]

Originally Posted by mutigers5591

+ a big one..im pretty sure 10:1 isnt even good

i've been using 10:1 but i think revising it upward can't be bad at all

tho, i think in these, at low levels, ppl are reraising wider than u think and see 77+ easily in the guy's rang on this hand --- i am in shock over some of the plays i see

[draw2aflush]

Originally Posted by ChestersDad

i've been using 10:1 but i think revising it upward can't be bad at all

tho, i think in these, at low levels, ppl are reraising wider than u think and see 77+ easily in the guy's rang on this hand --- i am in shock over some of the plays i see

I guess what makes it really hard for me to fold here is just knowing that if i miss flop i easily fold and if i double up I will utilize the chips effectively enough for the risk.

yea probably is a fold