$5.50 45 man.... last one

[gwplant]

This guy smelled weak with his stack size I thought I was good. Did I make the wrong play here?? Limping and min raising... are both out of control on the tables I am playing.

Full Tilt Poker Game #13842339056: $5 + 0.50 Sit & Go (102104921), Table 2 - 120/240 - No Limit Hold'em - 19:54:12 ET - 2009/08/05
Seat 2: virgas13 (2,730)
Seat 3: gwplant (1,835)
Seat 4: notinstores (2,910)
Seat 5: MyselfFTW (2,125)
Seat 6: bigtraktor (2,500)
Seat 7: fozydabear (8,640)
Seat 8: rayt1603 (5,385)
Seat 9: MP78 (6,465)
gwplant posts the small blind of 120
notinstores posts the big blind of 240
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to gwplant [As 8d]
gwplant: lol
gwplant: ok
MyselfFTW folds
bigtraktor raises to 480
fozydabear folds
rayt1603 folds
MP78 folds
virgas13 folds
gwplant raises to 1,835, and is all in
notinstores has 15 seconds left to act
notinstores folds
bigtraktor calls 1,355
gwplant shows [As 8d]
bigtraktor shows [Ah Jh]
*** FLOP *** [2s 6h 4c]
gwplant: omg
*** TURN *** [2s 6h 4c] [9h]
*** RIVER *** [2s 6h 4c 9h] [7h]
gwplant shows Ace Nine high
bigtraktor shows a flush, Ace high
bigtraktor wins the pot (3,910) with a flush, Ace high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3,910 | Rake 0
Board: [2s 6h 4c 9h 7h]
Seat 2: virgas13 (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: gwplant (small blind) showed [As 8d] and lost with Ace Nine high
Seat 4: notinstores (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 5: MyselfFTW didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: bigtraktor showed [Ah Jh] and won (3,910) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 7: fozydabear didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: rayt1603 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: MP78 didn't bet (folded)

[jasonkobe]

probably be on aj+ 88+ without reads/stats- dont think hes ever really folding to a shove here unless hes really bad. i could see re shoving a bit wider however if he was min raising alot

[WebGuySteve]

I think this is ok. Not really great, and def not terrible. I think I'd actually prefer a stop n go here.

[Ajeff007]

Originally Posted by WebGuySteve

I think this is ok. Not really great, and def not terrible. I think I'd actually prefer a stop n go here.

Yeah this is basically what I thought. Whether to get it in or not is kinda read dependant but if you choose to get it in I would go with the Stop N Go over a reshove.

[ballerfrank]

Originally Posted by WebGuySteve

I think this is ok. Not really great, and def not terrible. I think I'd actually prefer a stop n go here.

I would like never stop and go here. Shove is fine.

[Ajeff007]

Originally Posted by ballerfrank

I would like never stop and go here. Shove is fine.

Why so?

[WebGuySteve]

This is a perfect spot for a stop n go. Please explain otherwise frank.

[skateplussnow]

Stop n gos are tricky. Prob very +EV at this level tho. I still think i muck pre considering his prob not folding to a shove

[gwplant]

Out of my 4 scenarios if I had to do it over again this is the one I would have changed and folded my hand pre flop...I was guilty of focusing on his weak bet rather than his remaining chip stack in relation to the blind level. I think the right play would have been to open fold and waited for position in the next couple of hands to move.

[WebGuySteve]

the thing about a stop n go is that you want a few things to be true:

1) you want to want to put this in pre

2) you want your shove to be pretty close to a fold, but still a shove

3) you want to have it so that they can fold a better hand on most flops.

4) you want between .75-2x pot left in effective stacks.

I think all of these conditions are met here, and you don't even need all of them to pull of an effective stop n go.

[ballerfrank]

Originally Posted by WebGuySteve

This is a perfect spot for a stop n go. Please explain otherwise frank.

1) It's going to get a fold on the flop about 1% of the time on many boards. Obviously a slight exaggeration, but really I don't see anyone even folding two overs on small card flops.

2) BB has a perfect stack to squeeze. He can also just flat you, and then you are going to be shoving through 2 people on the flop. Obviously not an ideal situation.

3) Shoving keeps the situation simple and is the better choice in my mind.

[WebGuySteve]

Originally Posted by ballerfrank

1) It's going to get a fold on the flop about 1% of the time on many boards. Obviously a slight exaggeration, but really I don't see anyone even folding two overs on small card flops.

I don't think this is a valid point because even 1% FE is better than 0%

2) BB has a perfect stack to squeeze. He can also just flat you, and then you are going to be shoving through 2 people on the flop. Obviously not an ideal situation.

This is a fair point, and I actually didn't notice it was a min raise. I thought blinds were 50/100. I really need to get better at reading HHs.

3) Shoving keeps the situation simple and is the better choice in my mind.

I don't like this reason either. Being simple often means it's not the best play.

.

[ballerfrank]

Originally Posted by WebGuySteve

.

Ok, I probably should have made the connection between points 1 and 3 clearler, but basically you are adding complexity to the hand for minimal reward (he rarely folds to a stop and go). You're just giving him a free shot of hitting the flop if he has a junky hand.

[WebGuySteve]

Originally Posted by ballerfrank

Ok, I probably should have made the connection between points 1 and 3 clearler, but basically you are adding complexity to the hand for minimal reward (he rarely folds to a stop and go). You're just giving him a free shot of hitting the flop if he has a junky hand.

you're kind of contradicting yourself here. Either he has a junky hand rarely, or you're giving him a chance to hit with one.

[ballerfrank]

Originally Posted by WebGuySteve

you're kind of contradicting yourself here. Either he has a junky hand rarely, or you're giving him a chance to hit with one.

I don't see where I contradicted myself at all. You are certainly ahead of a random's range here. If you stop and go, you're letting him see a flop with a hand that is most likely behind and he's very rarely going to be folding. Shoving preflop clearly maximizes your FE.

[WebGuySteve]

Originally Posted by ballerfrank

I don't see where I contradicted myself at all. You are certainly ahead of a random's range here. If you stop and go, you're letting him see a flop with a hand that is most likely behind and he's very rarely going to be folding. Shoving preflop clearly maximizes your FE.

oh I see, that's where we disagree

I am assuming we have 0 FE pre, and SLIGHT FE if we sng. If you think we have FE pre, then shoving > sng...always.

The other condition for stop n go is 0 FE pre.

[Acid Hound]

I prolly just shove. Its close though, I fold A6 with little thought